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Occasional Contributor
Posts: 7
Registered: ‎06-24-2011

About power consuming and redundancy on DCX-8 with FC16-48

Hi Experts,

 

From DCX 8510 FAQ docuement(https://www.brocade.com/content/dam/common/documents/content-types/faqs/brocade-dcx-8510-faq.pdf) , it mentions the maximum number of Brocade FC16-48 or FC8-48E blades supported with two 2,000 W power supplies is seven (one of the port blade slots must be empty) in a fully redundant (1+1) configuration, so when four 2,000W power supplies and 8 port blades populated, the 8th slot blade will be powered off focibily in case of two PSU lost.

 

However from DCX-8 hardware installation guide(http://www.brocade.com/content/dam/common/documents/content-types/hardware-installation-guide/dcx-8510-8-installguide.pdf), it mentions when four power supplies populated, it will work at 2+2 redundancy mode so even if half PSU lost, there should no any port blade down:

Brocade DCX 8510-8: Four modular, hot-swappable power supplies (100-240 VAC autosensing), 2+2 redundancy

 

which statement is true and can be rely on ?

 

Appreciated for your inputs.

 

Thanks.

Best Regards,

Simon

Valued Contributor
Posts: 549
Registered: ‎03-20-2011

Re: About power consuming and redundancy on DCX-8 with FC16-48

Hi Simon. Already answered privately, copypasting here.

Looks like the wording is a bit complicated or confusing, so here is the fact that I checked in the live scenario and can confirm:

Slot #12 will shutdown by itself when there will be only one power supply left in the configuration.

Interesting is that you can even power it back on, but you have to sacrifice one of the core blades, so the total number of running blades in the chassis will still be 11.
Occasional Contributor
Posts: 11
Registered: ‎05-18-2015

Re: About power consuming and redundancy on DCX-8 with FC16-48

Hi Alexey,

 

May I know your live scenario configuration?

And, do you have any idea how's the non-HA / fully redundant / HA configuration like?

 

I may wrong but I believe statements from both links stand valid, my very personal views as below:

 

Installation Guide:

Power consumption (maximum configuration)

  • Maximum configuration: DCX 8510-8 fully loaded: 2 CPs, 2 Core, 8 FC16-48, 3 Fan FRUs.
  • @200 VAC input: 2429 W
  • Minimum number of power supplies: 2 for AC High Line (200-240 VAC)

 

Power supply identification

  • PS1 and PS2 on left while PS3 and PS4 on right.

 

FAQ:

The maximum number of Brocade FC16-48 and/or FC8-48E blades in a Brocade DCX 8510-8 requires a minimum of two power supplies for normal operation. Therefore, a third and/or fourth power supply needs to be added to enable high availability and non-disruptive power supply replacement. If a Brocade DCX 8510-8 maximum configuration is operated with only two power supplies (non-HA configuration), the twelfth slot (eighth port blade slot) will power down by design if one of the power supplies is removed.

 

So, I think, in logic way:

  • Non-HA: PS installed in PS1 and PS2 or PS3 and PS4.
  • Fully redundant: At least one PS on left (PS1, PS2) and right (PS3, PS4).
  • HA: PS installed in PS1 and PS2 and PS3 and PS4.
  • Non-HA / fully redundant / HA is autosensing.

 

Let's say we have two PS (2000 W) and eight port blades:

  • Non-HA: Giving 4000 W power. This 4000 W is exceeded the required power demand (2429 W), so switch can performs normal operation with the mentioned maximum configuration. Disruptive on eighth port blade slot (by design first, at user options later) if one of the PS is removed (or failed).
  • Fully redundant: Giving 2000 W power. By design eighth port blade slot will get power down first; user can selectively power up maximum seven port blade slots later.

 

Let's say we have four PS (2000 W) and eight port blades:

  • HA: Giving 4000 W power. This 4000 W is exceeded the required power demand (2429 W), so switch can performs normal operation with the mentioned maximum configuration. Disruptive on eighth port blade slot (by design first, at user options later) if two or three (scenarios below) of the PS are removed (or failed).

 

One PS failed: Degraded HA - No disruptive on eighth port blade / maximum eight Brocade FC16-48 or FC8-48E blades:

=========================

PS1: faulty   PS3: OK

PS2: OK       PS4: OK

=========================

PS1: OK       PS3: OK

PS2: faulty   PS4: OK

=========================

PS1: OK       PS3: faulty

PS2: OK       PS4: OK

=========================

PS1: OK       PS3: OK

PS2: OK       PS4: faulty

=========================

 

Two PS failed: Non-HA + No disruptive on eighth port blade / maximum eight Brocade FC16-48 or FC8-48E blades:

=========================

PS1: faulty   PS3: OK

PS2: faulty   PS4: OK

=========================

PS1: OK       PS3: faulty

PS2: OK       PS4: faulty

=========================

 

Two PS failed: Fully redundant + Disruptive on eighth port blade / maximum seven Brocade FC16-48 or FC8-48E blades:

=========================

PS1: faulty   PS3: faulty

PS2: OK       PS4: OK

=========================

PS1: faulty   PS3: OK

PS2: OK       PS4: faulty

=========================

PS1: OK       PS3: faulty

PS2: faulty   PS4: OK

=========================

PS1: OK       PS3: OK

PS2: faulty   PS4: faulty

=========================

 

Three PS failed: Disruptive on eighth port blade for sure / maximum seven Brocade FC16-48 or FC8-48E blades.

 

For readers, above just my very personal views, I may wrong.

But I have to agree that Brocade should explain in details in the guide....

 

 

Regards,

Liem

External Moderator
Posts: 4,974
Registered: ‎02-23-2004

Re: About power consuming and redundancy on DCX-8 with FC16-48

@Liem

 

power requirement as to be consider depend the configuration.

 

->But I have to agree that Brocade should explain in details in the guide...

 

All this is explained as well in FOS Release Notes.

 

@simon.yuan

 

-> From DCX 8510 FAQ....

-> However from DCX-8....

 

Simon, the difference between the two platforms is relevant because 8GB need a determined power and 16GB another.

Additionally, must be note what Types of Blade are in the chassis ? is ICL enable or No? are intelligent Blade inserted ?

....and much more.

For this reason is almost impossible to give an exact answer about power consum.

TechHelp24
Valued Contributor
Posts: 549
Registered: ‎03-20-2011

Re: About power consuming and redundancy on DCX-8 with FC16-48

a few years ago, when we've done one of the first 8510-8 (full chassis with 48-port cards) installations, we performed the live test: we started disconnecting the power supplies one by one. and when only one p/s left plugged, the slot #12 powered down by itself. that's it.

the maths are simple:
(40 * 2) + (240 * 2) + (160.4 * 8) + (90 * 3) = 2113.2
(40 * 2) + (240 * 2) + (160.4 * 7) + (90 * 3) = 1952.8

that's why one of the slots has to power off.
Occasional Contributor
Posts: 11
Registered: ‎05-18-2015

Re: About power consuming and redundancy on DCX-8 with FC16-48

@Antonio Bongiorno TechHelp24

 

I meant the mentioned non-HA / HA / fully redundant configuration is not discussed in details.

 

There are four PS slots in DCX 8510-8: PS1 and PS2 on left while PS3 and PS4 on right; but as a manual reader I do not know how's the non-HA / HA / fully redundant configuration should be.

 

Let's say if I have two PS, can I enable any one of the combinations below?

  • PS1 + PS2
  • PS1 + PS3
  • PS1 + PS4
  • PS2 + PS3
  • PS2 + PS4

According to Installation Guide / FAQ, two PS are able to perform normal operation for maximum configuration, third and/or fourth power supply needs to be added to enable high availability;

 

Then, FAQ stated non-HA and fully redundant (1+1) configuration which having different operation behaviour.

  • non-HA: 2 PS, eight Brocade FC16-48 and/or FC8-48E blades.
  • fully redundant (1+1): 2 PS, seven Brocade FC16-48 or FC8-48E blades.

These lead to the interest to know which-is-which configuration (non-HA / HA / fully redundant).

 

Same goes to three PS combinations below.

  • PS1 + PS2 + PS3
  • PS1 + PS2 + PS4
  • PS1 + PS3 + PS4
  • PS2 + PS3 + PS4

And yes, it causes confusion to dummy who needs more understanding like me. Man Frustrated

Sorry for my poor understanding. Man LOL

 

 

Regards,

Liem

Occasional Contributor
Posts: 11
Registered: ‎05-18-2015

Re: About power consuming and redundancy on DCX-8 with FC16-48

@alexey.stepanov

 

Thank you. Is that was four PS configuration?

 

 

Regards,

Liem

Valued Contributor
Posts: 549
Registered: ‎03-20-2011

Re: About power consuming and redundancy on DCX-8 with FC16-48

Yes, sure, 4 power supplies. To me, the meaning of HA / non-HA (with regards to the power supply configuration) is very simple. In HA configuration, you should be protected from any possible single failure. Including power line failure. So in the 8 x 48 port cards configuration, you have to have minimum 2 power supplies left online after any possible single failure. Which means: if your site has two power lines, you have to install four power supplies. Two should connect to one source, two to another. BTW, no matter what two and two, I mean the exact locations. But if your site has three or more power lines (who knows?) then 3 power supplies connected to 3 independent power sources are already enough for HA. Any other combination of number of power lines and used chassis slots should be individually calculated. There are too many combinations, that's why you don't see all of them documented in the Brocade papers. You are given the calculation rules instead.
Valued Contributor
Posts: 549
Registered: ‎03-20-2011

Re: About power consuming and redundancy on DCX-8 with FC16-48

Liem, I don't know where you read that. Have another look at the text:

"we started disconnecting the power supplies one by one. and when ONLY ONE p/s LEFT PLUGGED, the slot #12 powered down by itself."

Which means that we failed three power supplies (out of four) to make it happen. Isn't it HA?
Occasional Contributor
Posts: 11
Registered: ‎05-18-2015

Re: About power consuming and redundancy on DCX-8 with FC16-48

@alexey.stepanov

 

Thanks for clarify.

My apologies for my wrong understanding to your statements.

 

 

Regards,

Liem

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